Episode 8

Building Mindful Leaders Today With Barry Moulsdale

Alan interviews Barry Moulsdale on this week’s episode of Mindful You. Barry Mousdale is the Founder and Managing Partner of Anfield Business Consultants. Barry talks about the importance of self-awareness as a leader and how many leaders across the globe lack this important skill. In order to be a great leader you need to be vulnerable and honest. Barry believes vulnerability is one of the greatest traits a leader can possess. As a leader you need to be in the present moment and truly able to listen. Barry is of the opinion that with emotional intelligence you can lead your team to their highest potential.

About the Guest:

Barry Moulsdale is the Founder and Managing Partner of Anfield Business Consultants, one of the most professional organizations in the leadership development, career coaching and strategic business consulting fields.

Barry has 25+ years of leadership experience heading many divisions of multi-national consumer goods and manufacturing companies in North America. Having undergone his own successful leadership journey, Barry formed Anfield 16 years ago to bring joy to people’s work lives and guide them on their journey to reach the pinnacle of leadership.

When he is not coaching, Barry is a happily married, father of three, living in Oakville, Ontario Canada. He spends his free time coaching his youngest son and teammates in Little League Baseball, attempting to lower his golf handicap, enjoying the peace and tranquility of nature and walking and playing with his 2-year old Mini Aussie Labradoodle, named Scout.

About Alan:

Alan Carroll is an Educational Psychologist who specializes in Transpersonal Psychology. He founded Alan Carroll & Associates 30 years ago and before that, he was a Senior Sales Training Consultant for 10 years at Digital Equipment Corporation. He has dedicated his life in search of mindfulness tools that can be used by everyone (young and old) to transform their ability to speak at a professional level, as well as, to reduce the psychological suffering caused by the misidentification with our ego and reconnect to the vast transcendent dimension of consciousness that lies just on the other side of the thoughts we think and in between the words we speak.

Personal: https://www.facebook.com/alan.carroll.7359

Business: https://www.facebook.com/AlanCarrolltrains

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/aca-mindful-you/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mindfulnesseminar/

Web Site: https://acamindfulyou.com/

Transcript
Alan Carroll:

Welcome to the mindful U podcast. Today's

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guest, Barry Mozelle, who has spent over 25 years focusing in

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on the conversation of developing leaders, developing

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executives, how can you build successful teams? How can you

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navigate through the churning things and issues and ups and

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downs of the situations that we're facing in our societies

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and our businesses worldwide. And I'm happy to have him today

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sharing about how mindfulness being present, communication is

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all a part of developing leaders. So I'd like to welcome

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Barry to the mindful you podcast, I bury the listener

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with a question about leadership. Let's start with a

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question about mindfulness. And how do you see, first of all,

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how do you see mindfulness and the ability to be present and

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mindful in the moment? And how is that connected to being a

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leader and being present in the moment?

Barry Moulsdale:

Great question. I would say that the number one

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flaw that we observe in leaders, is a lack of self awareness. And

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what I mean by that is, it usually takes leadership 360

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reviews, or takes personality assessments for them to better

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understand their own motivators or behaviors, or blind spots, to

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have a better sense of self. And then we go through an exercise

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or practice that really shifts them from being a reflexive

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leader, to being a more reflective leader. And the irony

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of this journey, Alan is, if I were to ask 100, leaders, how

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would they naturally solve this simple problem, over 80% of them

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would admit or say that they would do it the right or the

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reflective way. But the irony is when you then put them to task

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and you role play, and video, record them, solving a very

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simple everyday problem 99.5% of those people recorded, and we've

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recorded in this journey, not me, but the people who utilize

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this intellectual property have recorded over half a million

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people doing this, and 99.5% of them no matter how friendly they

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are, naturally, act like they're in the Savannah versus the

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business world, and instinctively solve the problem.

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So the reason I say that is, it's two things. One is being

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mindful of self, and being able to understand and go through

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assessment and discovery and feedback, to get a better real

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perspective, not how you see yourself, which matters, but

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more importantly, how others see and interact with you. That will

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be number one. And then number two, and I can relate to this,

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because this is exactly the journey I went on, that drove me

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into wanting to do this for so many others. Number two is, even

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when you've learned those tools, you're shifting from what I call

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Allan, an unconscious incompetence, meaning you just

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saw the only one know why you instinctively do it, through a

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mindfulness journey, all the way through to what we call

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unconscious competence, to then know and have the natural skills

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to actually be reflective in any interaction with your people,

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your clients, your customers, and anybody else. And the

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difference is actually being able to effectively listen. And

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being mindful of the situation. And being mindful that the

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person you're in front of has a story to tell. They have

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challenges that they're facing. And instead of solving them for

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them, when you think you're doing a great service. They

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think like they ultimately walk away being told and feel

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dismissed and feel sometimes even to the point of stupid,

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right? You thought you were in there great. They didn't see it

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the other way around. So it's being able to be mindful of

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putting yourself in the other person's shoes and asking the

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right questions and structuring the conversation. Giving your

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data to make sure you're aligned. And then collectively

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working together and empowering that person who has the problem

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to go off and then try to solve the problem. So it's it's

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certainly a strong sense of awareness, maybe not exactly the

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scientific term of mindfulness that you're offering. But

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ultimately, what it boils down to, is being mindful in the

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moment. And one of the things that we teach people is how to

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observe when they're really good at it. And then observe when

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they're still challenged with as they're moving from conscious

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competence and awareness of the skill to then making it

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subconscious or unconscious. And to having that happening

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naturally. You know, things like leaving your phone on the other

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side of the room, closing your laptop and moving to another

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part of the room. So you're having a one on one discussion

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intently, without distraction, as a leader, not worrying about

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being efficient, to keeping the trains running on time in your

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schedule, but being effective and present in the moment with

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that person, and then utilizing all these tools.

Alan Carroll:

Wow, so many, so many sweet words, you said there

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that are just gold minds to be able to uncover self awareness,

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observation being in the present moment. All those are terms that

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I mindfulness person would say, Yep, the idea is to be present

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in the present moment. But then then the question is, well, if

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they're not present in the present moment, if they're not

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self aware, then where are they? Where are they in their head?

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Where they're not? If they're not here in this meeting? Where

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the heck are they?

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They're, they're thinking about the problem that

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came up themselves they have to solve. They're thinking about

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their calendar, and what's next? And how do I get this person out

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of my office, so I can get my five minute break in. So I can

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answer those three, pending urgent emails, and so on, and so

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on and so forth. Right? It's the natural inclination that leaders

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feel that others observe them to have to be efficient. And look

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like they've got it all together. But in reality, none

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of us have it all together. Right? So it's the ability to be

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vulnerable, and admit that and be humble, and show weakness,

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and show that you don't have the answers. Like, you know,

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everyone's given the great interview advice. If you get

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asked the question, and you don't know the answer, or via

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customer and sales, you'll make way more of a positive

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impression on that person. They say, You know what? I don't know

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the answer. I'm sorry. But you know, what I'm gonna do, I'm

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gonna get you that answer. I'm going to commit to finding that

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answer. And through hell or high water, and I know it's dependent

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on the people getting me that answer, I want to get back to

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you in this amount of time. Right. So it's that mindfulness

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and that commitments to being humble and vulnerable. That

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impacts our interaction with other people, whether it's in

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life, or whether it's in work, or whether it's, you know, in a

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pyramid organization, where you have the authority of being a

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boss, but an authoritative boss, who has the title. And I'll

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refer to John Maxwell, a very good leader who writes on

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leadership, good level one is you have a title because you're

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the boss. Yep. There's five levels to evolve to. Right, and

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we help people on that journey to understand them, and how to

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apply different tools in becoming that fifth level

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generation. Fifth Level category, if you will, a leader.

Alan Carroll:

Let's take a look at that word. vulnerability.

Alan Carroll:

Sure. And we'll look at the word of characteristics of a

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professional leader. I'll use the word professional leader,

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someone who, who has been in the been in the driver's seat has

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driven the vehicle has experienced, and on the journey

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they have learned how to be more reflexive, be more aware of what

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is going on in the reality in which they live, and some of the

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characteristics of a person who is good at the game that good at

Alan Carroll:

the leadership game. And one of the ones he pointed out was the

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area of vulnerability and being able to not have it all

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together, to be able to realize that most of the knowledge in

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the world you don't know. And so often, you're going to be asked

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what are what are the answers and vulnerability means exactly

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what But you said is that, I don't know, however, I work for

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the largest organization in the United States, and we have

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resources. And that's why you want to do business with me,

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I'll go contact my resources. And I'll get back to you. And

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one of the characters

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go on, for sure. And to take that further, you know, all

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the great leaders, I've had the fortune to either work with

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train interview on my YouTube Leadership Series will however I

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find them and interact with them. The vulnerability comes

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from just a more human to human mentality and approach. They

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don't wake up thinking that these are my employees, they

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wake up thinking about, these are people on my team. These are

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people whose lives they have a responsibility for, and not just

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themselves, but also their families. And the best quote,

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ever heard of a leaders was, hey, if I'm never the smartest

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person in the room, as a leader, it's time for me to leave. I

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need to be the most mindful person in the room to your point

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earlier. But I have absolutely should not ever be the smart and

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just admitting that is the first step in vulnerability to

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surround yourself with subject matter experts who know a heck

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of a lot more than you do. Regardless of whether the topic

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is HR, finance, sales, marketing, operations, logistics

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supply chain, I can go on and on. But that's what makes a

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great leader is understanding that of self.

Alan Carroll:

I love it. I love it, I think of a Tony Robbins

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quote. And Tony Robbins said you want to operate with people who

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are league above you. And it's like, oh, no, they're much

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smarter than me. Well, you know, the, the tide rises all the

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ships. So by hanging out with people who have a greater

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understanding of the subject matter, allows you to be in that

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vibration, you know, and begins to elevate yourself.

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And if you're comfortable in your own skin,

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and humble enough to admit you don't know, and that's why you

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surround yourself with subject matter experts. In essence, by

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choosing to do that, you're actually showing the first stage

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of vulnerability, because you don't fear replacement. You

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don't fear not being the smartest, you don't fear not

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being seen as the highest IQ. What great leaders all have in

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common Allah is they have enough practical experience and acumen,

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to have acquired enough level of IQ, to understand concepts to be

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in the present to digest information. Yep, and offer a

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perspective or an opinion that has business IQ sense related to

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it. But that's just the only have to have enough of that.

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What truly great leaders have is the highest level of EQ. And if

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there's one common trait amongst all the different personality

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types, regardless, people used to think in the 60s, oh, the

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aggressive dominant drivers are are the only ones that make the

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best leaders, not the case. So it's having that EQ and self

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awareness and understanding the personality traits of others,

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and chameleon yourself to how to relate to this person, because

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there are this personality style. And these are their

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specific intrinsic motivators. And vice versa, depending on the

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situation, and who you're in front of just that conscious

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awareness of adapting itself to the individual nature of that

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one other person at a time. And that's only level two or three.

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That makes a huge compelling impact on the receiver of that

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interaction on that exchange.

Alan Carroll:

Wow. So let's go back and get the definition of

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EQ so my audience will know what that means. Yeah, basically,

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it's

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emotional intelligence. It's the other type of

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intelligence where there's lots of batteries of tests out there

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that measure your IQ, you know, how, how intellectually smart

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are you? Emotional Intelligence is how aware of environments are

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you? Do you have the ability to understand someone else's

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motivations? Do you have the ability to observe and

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understand why people behave the way in which they behave? Do you

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have a comprehensive understanding of your own blind

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spots, to know that in moments of pressure and stress, this is

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a natural tendencies that in which you naturally revert to

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under pressure and higher though Have behaviors impact others.

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That's really emotional intelligence. And being aware in

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the moment.

Alan Carroll:

That's very much tied in with mindfulness.

Alan Carroll:

Mindfulness has a lot to do with being able to have. One of the

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sayings is, you're welcome to have strong positions. But hold

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them lightly. And when you have a strong position, you can hold

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it lightly. It allows for flexibility. And flexibility

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allows for listening. So how, how does listening affect? Being

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a being a great leader to me is connected with listening?

Unknown:

No, that's a fantastic question. And, you know, I'm I'm

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a naturally analytical thinker. So every time I'm making a

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point, I will probably reference a statistic because it kind of

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drives the point home in my personality. But, you know, 90%

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of people listen, to wait our turn to talk. 10% of people

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actually listen effectively. And obviously, I've met you for the

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first time I'm doing my second podcast interview ever. Right? I

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have to listen intently to know and hear and understand the most

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part, I heard your question. Did I understand your question?

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Right? Do I then create the time regardless of what amount of

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silence gap there is, it shouldn't matter, that

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uncomfortableness of silence is actually a good thing. Because

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if your brain doesn't work to the answer as necessarily fast

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as someone else in the room who may or may not, again, back to

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mindfulness and self awareness, that's not a flaw. That's not a

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crush. That's not a weakness. I'm going to take the time to

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reflect on your question. If I don't understand your question,

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I'm then going to ask you to clarify it. Number one, right.

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If I do understand it before he answer, I'm still gonna get in

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the step with you. Right, and give you a listening statement

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to confirm. Before I answer, I heard you properly.

Alan Carroll:

That's excellent. Excellent. That's, that's shows

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that I'm actually effectively listening and not

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just waiting for the pause, to jump in in that state.

Alan Carroll:

Wow, that's great. The I find that the listening is

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a challenge for many people.

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And often when you say that, right? As an example, I

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always say to people, think about how intensely you listen

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to your children, when they come to you in tears or having meat.

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It's your natural instinct to watch, you may have still want

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to solve, which is wrong. But you still want to understand

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because you have an emotional connection to helping that

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child. Conversely, how many times do we all have the skill,

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right? That we're doing something important, whether

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it's reading, watching a football game, we're in our own

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zone, and your wife comes downstairs and starting to talk

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to you? Right? And you're like, yeah, oh, yeah, I heard. You're

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not You're not You're not paying attention. You don't pause the

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game. And now we have the power on PVR. To pause it. That's

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right. Yep. And be intentional. And give them your presence.

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Right. But because we have such a comfort level, in that

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relationship, there's almost an anticipated behavior that your

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wife expects, they're going to be like, Yay, I heard. That's

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great. All she's looking for is the wave of acknowledgment. But

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imagine the impact if you actually pause the game, got up,

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turn towards them, made eye contact and said, Sorry, honey,

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I missed that. The game was still on. I wanted to give you

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my undivided attention. What is it you want to talk to you about

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for five? Right? The impact? So if you naturally know for your

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kids, and you naturally don't do it for your wives,

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theoretically, right? And you can sure don't get me wrong,

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right? But you think about those two extremes. And how you can

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bring presents, which again, relates the mindfulness to the

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conversation or one of the things that we teach is how to

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make sure you are acting, mindful and acting reflectively

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but also, when you put it into practice, that sounds great in

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theory, but that's why you have to continue to use the muscle

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and we make our people follow up with us. and give us every

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single week we talked to them. Give me the best two examples of

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you applying this last week. Fantastic. Now let's talk about

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the two times where you didn't think you were as effective. And

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you didn't feel like this was unconsciously competent, and you

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kind of revert. And what we study is, was it the person you

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were dealing with their harder style to understand, was it the

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environment where their external pressures were on the other

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environmental factors, because we've seen and heard every

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single scenario where people still struggled to do it. So

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it's not like an online course you can learn and then go apply

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and hope you succeed. The benefit for us is, the more

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sticky it gets for you. The more potential it is they you see

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this awakening or this magic, as we like to call it. And the more

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people you're going to tell about as a positive awakening, I

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like to call it crossing the leadership bridge, because

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you're always on a movement journey, and you come to that

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bridge, where you're either going to stand there for the

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rest of your career, you're going to dip a toe the wrong way

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and drown. Or you're going to take the time and invest in

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yourself to move across that bridge. And sometimes the bridge

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can be smooth and slow. Sometimes the bridge can be old

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fashioned and rickety. It really you really defined by your

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application and commitment to it, what type of actual bridge

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your journey is. And then the beauty of getting out on the

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other side of it.

Alan Carroll:

And crossing a bridge that tricky day requires

Alan Carroll:

courage sometimes. So I would imagine courage is part of

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leadership. Also.

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I was saying that. The number one thing that I look for

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in prospective clients, when I'm having a conversation with them,

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is not what they can afford. It's not how much time are they

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willing or not willing to commit his life is busy. It's really

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about courage. I asked, I literally asked them to rate

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their courage on a scale of one to 10. And then give me two or

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three examples of why they gave me that number, whether that's a

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pro or con. Sure. Because I think people have to reflect

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inside themselves to say, Do I know I have a need, that's

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probably the hardest part of leadership. To be honest, Allen

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is people having the self awareness and mindfulness to

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your point to to see all the challenges going on their

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workforce, and their workplace results. People, clients,

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vendors, union, all the everyday challenges we go through to have

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the mindfulness, the self awareness to say, maybe I'm the

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problem, maybe I need to go and do better. Versus that person

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has got to go on a performance plan that person we need to get

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rid of that person we need for probably moved from that seat on

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the bus, to that seat on the bus, the last thing people ever

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look at is themselves. So to do that, takes courage. And then to

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reach out and inquire and find assistance to recognize you can

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be better. It's something takes courage. But all the great

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leaders I talked to, and all the great leaders I interview

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because they're really good case studies, the number one

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commonality other than vulnerability. And humbleness is

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they've all had formal leadership training at some

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point throughout their careers. And they've all got that thing,

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whatever it is to go back and refer to as a refresher, or to

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replenish that muscle, if you will, as their as a reminder

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when they face more challenging times.

Alan Carroll:

Wow, that is great. What a rich, rich

Alan Carroll:

conversation Barry, we have a couple of more minutes and I

Alan Carroll:

really would like my audience to have an opportunity. If they

Alan Carroll:

wanted to connect with you want to find out more about your

Alan Carroll:

organization, how they how they can do with that. Also, all your

Alan Carroll:

links will be included in the show notes, turn it goes out to

Alan Carroll:

the distributed to the world. They'll be able to see all the

Alan Carroll:

details, but go I'm

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sure at the end of the day. We have created and I'm the

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founder of a leadership program called the boost Leadership

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Program. And unlike fancy acronyms like smart goals, boost

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is exactly what it says it is for boosting leadership

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performance. Whether that's amongst a leadership team, or

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whether that's individually one on one. It's a 90 day program

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designed to move you to becoming that truly reflective leader

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away from a natural instinct of being a reflexive leader to move

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you from either level one, two or three If you think about John

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Maxwell's five levels of leadership, we take leaders on

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that are level one, level two or level three, and we migrate them

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within 90 days to level four and level five.

Alan Carroll:

And what would be the website that we could

Alan Carroll:

contact you on?

Unknown:

We are at www Enfield business consultants.com. I'm

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originally from Liverpool, England, and I'm a huge global

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football supporter, not American football, even though I follow

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the NFL. So for lots of you, that would be considered soccer.

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And Liverpool is one of the most famous clubs in the world. The

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stadium that they play at is called Anfield. And the theory

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or the tagline around the Liverpool Football Club is

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you'll never walk alone. Our company tagline is you'll never

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work alone. We're here to be your partner. We're here to help

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you on your journey. And we're here to help you succeed.

Alan Carroll:

Wonderful. Well, Barry, I thoroughly enjoyed the

Alan Carroll:

just a little touch of a deep conversation. And I appreciate

Alan Carroll:

you sharing your wisdom and knowledge on your journey. And

Alan Carroll:

thank you very much and I would like to continue. Can't do it

Alan Carroll:

today. But I'd like to continue our conversation on leadership

Alan Carroll:

because you're a rich resource for our audience.

Unknown:

Anytime. I'd love to join, it's a topic that I have a

Unknown:

great passion for I never get tired of talking about.

Alan Carroll:

Well thank you very much for your time.

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Alan Carroll

Alan Carroll is an Educational Psychologist who specializes in Transpersonal Psychology. He founded Alan Carroll & Associates 30 years ago and before that, he was a Senior Sales Training Consultant for 10 years at Digital Equipment Corporation. He has dedicated his life in search of mindfulness tools that can be used by everyone (young and old) to transform their ability to speak at a professional level, as well as, to reduce the psychological suffering caused by the misidentification with our ego and reconnect to the vast transcendent dimension of consciousness that lies just on the other side of the thoughts we think and in between the words we speak.