Episode 42

Unlocking Inner Serenity: Exploring The Benefits, Techniques, And Significance Of Meditation With Thom Walters

In this episode of "Mindful You" hosted by Alan interviews, meditation instructor Thom Walters shares valuable insights on using meditation to alleviate anxiety. Walters delves into the benefits of meditation, emphasizing its role in promoting mental well-being. The conversation explores the nature of meditation, shedding light on various techniques to manage thoughts, enhance awareness, and cultivate stillness. Walters provides practical guidance on incorporating meditation into daily life, emphasizing its transformative impact on mental health. Listeners gain a deeper understanding of the importance of meditation as a tool for finding relief and fostering a sense of calm amidst life's challenges.

About The Guest:

Thom Walters is a meditation instructor who offers relief to those who suffer from anxiety. As a meditator with over 40 years of experience, and the host of the widely popular Zen Commuter and Calmer in 5 podcasts, he is deeply skilled at helping his students get free of the pain that accompanies anxiety and depression. Through meditation, which is firmly believes is available to everyone, he helps the world become calmer, wiser and happier.

About Alan:

Alan Carroll is an Educational Psychologist who specializes in Transpersonal Psychology. He founded Alan Carroll & Associates 30 years ago and before that, he was a Senior Sales Training Consultant for 10 years at Digital Equipment Corporation. He has dedicated his life in search of mindfulness tools that can be used by everyone (young and old) to transform their ability to speak at a professional level, as well as, to reduce the psychological suffering caused by the misidentification with our ego and reconnect to the vast transcendent dimension of consciousness that lies just on the other side of the thoughts we think and in between the words we speak.

Personal: https://www.facebook.com/alan.carroll.7359

Business: https://www.facebook.com/AlanCarrolltrains

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/aca-mindful-you/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mindfulnesseminar/

Web Site: https://acamindfulyou.com/

Transcript
Alan Carroll:

Hi, everybody, and welcome to the mindful you

Alan Carroll:

podcast, where we get to meet people, we get to talk to

Alan Carroll:

people, we get to have people share their experiences of

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mindfulness, and the various paths that you can go in order

Alan Carroll:

to develop those mindfulness muscles. And in my 50s 60 years

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of experience, I can think of no better tool, then the ability to

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go back to the center, back to the grounding, by closing your

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eyes, and meditating, stilling your mind. And today's guest,

Alan Carroll:

Tom Walters, has been in the mindfulness meditation, stilling

Alan Carroll:

the mind business. For a long, long time, he even described

Alan Carroll:

that his mother, when he was a child, we'll be talking about

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presence and stillness and deep breathing, and meditation. And I

Alan Carroll:

said, Wow, how lucky to have a mother, a primary programmer of

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your consciousness to be right there at the beginning, talking

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about mindfulness, tools and mindfulness benefits. And today,

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I'm happy to introduce Tom to you. And the podcast was so

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rich, that we just kept on talking. So there's actually

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going to be two Podcast. Today, you're going to be hearing part

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one of the Thomas Walters podcast. And later in the

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future, you will hear part two of the conversation that I had

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with Thomas, that was just wonderful. And I'm happy that we

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get to share him with you. And please welcome Thomas Walters to

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the mindful U podcast. Tom Walters, welcome to the mindful

Alan Carroll:

U podcast. Alan. The thing that excites me about our

Alan Carroll:

conversation today, Tom, is that you and I are are integrating a

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conversation into our into our life, and the conversation that

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you are a stand for. And the conversation that I am the stand

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for is the is the absolute importance of taking time out

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every single day, to become still to become quiet. To become

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to discover that there's a space in which there's no agitation,

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smooth like water on a pond in the early morning. Perfect

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reflection, no distortion, and the label that you use. And the

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label that I use is meditation. So Boy, oh, boy, we're going to

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the candy store today, baby. And we're gonna, we're gonna jump

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into meditation so we can inspire other people to take the

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time, whether it's five minutes, whether it's a minute to start

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just getting that routine in, and then discover for yourself,

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the richness of meditation. And I thought, Tom, it would be

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wonderful for you to introduce your spiritual self by taking us

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on a short meditation. So we can feel it in our bodies and see

Alan Carroll:

what what are you talking about Tom and Alan meditation? What?

Alan Carroll:

What's that? So just give us a taste of the of the honey.

Thom Walters:

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for your

Thom Walters:

introduction. Thank you for having me on your show. I am

Thom Walters:

very excited to be here. To your point. Why don't we just start

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in with a nice, chill, inward journey and to do that?

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Obviously, if your listeners are in the car, don't do this, but

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if anybody's just sitting at their desk or at home, why don't

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we just kind of find a nice, quiet space in our chair with

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our feet flat on the floor and then slowly, just become aware

Thom Walters:

of your breath. Nothing special that we have to do right now.

Thom Walters:

Just become aware of all the sense stations that come with

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our breath. Reps breathing in, we feel the coolness through our

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nose below our chest rising and falling, perhaps our abdomen as

Thom Walters:

well. No need to change anything about your breath, just become

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aware of it. As you're settling into wherever you are, just

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place your hands in your lap or on your thighs. In a moment,

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we're going to take some nice deep breaths. And for us that

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means a nice in through the nose, inhale for four seconds,

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or a count of four. And we're going to hold it for a count of

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seven. And then let it out slowly through our mouth for a

Thom Walters:

count of a when we do that together right now in for for

Thom Walters:

through our nose hold 234567 and through our mouth

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let's take another nice deep breath. If you haven't

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close your eyes, that's definitely an option as well in

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through our nose for a count of four hold

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and slowly let it out

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let's do one last long deep breath or best yet in through

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our nose. Expanding that belly hold after our mouth

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and now let's just bring our attention back to the normal

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tempo of our breath feeling the chair underneath us or feet on

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the floor any thoughts happened to find their way into her mind.

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There's absolutely no reason to get upset. It's what a mind

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does. mind creates thoughts. But if we find out that we have

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wandered, it's as simple as returning our attention back to

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our breath. And all the sensations that are there

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in any sounds that you hear maybe there's some smells nice.

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In a moment, I'm going to count back from five to one as our

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brief meditation ends

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more each one eyes will be open feeling totally refreshed.

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Totally relaxed five or noticing the run the room around you

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three almost there feeling totally relaxed. Totally calm.

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Two and one. When you're ready, you can open your eyes

Alan Carroll:

Thank you, Brother Tom. I was that was very nice.

Alan Carroll:

Gotcha. Let's, let's talk about the value of doing that

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exercise. Okay, you want me to stop you? I'm gonna close my

Alan Carroll:

eyes. You want me to breathe and notice my breath and Okay. Yeah.

Alan Carroll:

Okay. It was pleasant. So, let's talk about Yeah, okay, what's

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the value of brushing your teeth every day? You know, what's the

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value of preventative maintenance here? So what's the

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value of of meditation? What does meditation do that I should

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devote more time of my busy busy schedule to to a lot of space in

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my daily routine. To do this close my eyes feet flat on the

Alan Carroll:

floor stuff.

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Well, that answer could take us days to talk about but I

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will. I will read his dad Just for it, and then anybody that's

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not our peers might just get what's a Reader's Digest. But

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getting to your point. The main benefits that I find for

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meditation practice is, obviously there's a

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physiological, we'll talk about that maybe a little bit later.

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But each day, when we wake up, we think that we are in control

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of our thoughts, we think that we are running our own ship. And

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you know, we're doing all the things that we want. But the

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long and short of it is that if we don't have a meditation

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practice, or if we don't have a practice for turning inwardly,

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then we're not really in control of our day, we're just reacting

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to all the stimulus that's out there. And in 2023, there is a

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lot of stimulus out there, there's societal pressures,

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there's the thoughts well meaning or otherwise of

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caregivers. And so we're not really steering our own ship. So

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we're just kind of reacting not responding, but reacting to all

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the things that happen in our day. And to that point, people

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think, Oh, if a lot of good things happen in my day, it was

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a good day, or if a lot of seemingly challenging things

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happened. It was a rotten day. So people basically think that

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my day is not my day, whatever happens happens. And I'll just

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assess at the end, with a meditation practice, we can and

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do silence the world around us, we kind of put ourselves in a

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cocoon. So all the societal thoughts and pressures and media

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and caregivers, all the people that have thoughts about what we

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should do who we should be, they're just out there. And in

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this cocoon of silence, you have an awareness of what really is

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important to you, not what society wants, not what your

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parents, your boyfriend, girlfriend want. It's what is

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meaningful for you, we turn inwardly as you and I obviously

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know is so important. And we really understand that. With

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that silence, we know what has meaning for us. And then when we

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wake up in the day, and then we kind of guide not kind of we

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guide our day. So if we get cut off in traffic, it's not just a

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reaction that we like, ah, that son of a gun. We're like, Okay,

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I'm safe. I'm fine. Meditation gives us that. That space to

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just be and not just bouncing around like a pinball machine.

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There's another reference for people that are RH. So there's

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the Yeah, exactly. Like pinball. Hmm, well, yeah, remember that?

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Okay, segue closed. But to my point, it gives us the space to

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understand who we are what has meaning for us. And it makes us

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just less reactive, more responsive and less reactive. So

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that's the long and short of it. That's definitely the shorter

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because like I said, we could talk for hours days about all

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the benefits of meditation, but well, I'll stop with that one.

Alan Carroll:

You said, several magic words. And I just want to

Alan Carroll:

underline some of those magic words. Controlling the thoughts

Alan Carroll:

that you think the thoughts so so what's this? So why should I

Alan Carroll:

totally and Deepak Chopra said 65 to 80,000 thoughts pass

Alan Carroll:

through the screen every day, right? And 95 of those percent

Alan Carroll:

are the same thoughts you had yesterday. So like nothing new

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is happening here. Right. So in my in my reality, the way that I

Alan Carroll:

understand it, is that my thoughts, paint the picture. In

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my mind's eye, that's then projected out into the outer

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world. So what I see in my mind's eye, which I painted, all

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of a sudden appears to be the same in the outer world. So most

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people are trying to change the outer world in order to get

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happiness. But if you could change the picture, that you

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paint, by controlling the thoughts, which is the paint the

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thought paint, then you can alter the 35 millimeter, which

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goes right along with the pinball machine, the 35

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millimeter slide, that you take the take the flashlight, and you

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shine it, and it appears projected onto the big screen.

Alan Carroll:

So let's talk about the importance of managing thoughts,

Alan Carroll:

which most people aren't even aware of.

Unknown:

That's a great point. And wonderfully put up because I

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agree wholeheartedly. And I love the fact that you made the

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connection, that peace and joy and anything we want has to come

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internally from inward, we can't be looking outwardly because

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inwardly stays the same. It's never going to change. Well, we

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all change, obviously. But that change is something that we

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elicit. And so we can, for one, a better word control that but

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we can't control anything that's outside of us. So one of the

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things to talk about on my show is what I call situational

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neutrality. And it's a fancy way of saying that anything that

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happens is absolutely neutral. And it's our thoughts that

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either paint the reality, just like you said, to the negative

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or the positive. In fact, I don't have many examples right

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now. But the point I'm trying to make is that anything that

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happens to us, if we don't have a practice to kind of sift that

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out and find out what's going to be serving for us, then the

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negativity and this is sounds a little pessimistic, but the

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negativity of the world is going to paint that picture for us.

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Meaning that there is a negativity bias, meaning that if

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we don't do anything in our day, whether it be a meditation,

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practice, exercise, tai chi, whatever, then our caveman

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brain, our reptilian brain is just going to be looking for all

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the things to be aware of things to be to keep us safe, like,

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basically, you wake up and you basically scan the scan your

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environment to say, Okay, what's gonna take me out? I need to be

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worried about that. I need to be worried about that. Oh, man,

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who's that guy? Who's that guy crossing the street? Why is he

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coming towards me, we have all these thoughts that are just

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coming at us that negativity bias. So if you don't have

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anything to do it, that's what our day is going to be like,

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just all these fears, worries that have been instilled in us

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since our caveman days since the reptilian brain. But with a

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meditation practice, we can getting back to that social

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situation neutrality thing, we have that gap between stimulus

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and response for we see something to say, Cool, I don't

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have to jump into fight or flight, I don't have to jump

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into fear. I can be here. And I can see cool. That guy or gal,

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like just a stranger. I'm like, oh, cool, they're smiling. Nice.

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We just become aware of the world around us. And to my

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point, any situation, then we can with that silence with that

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stillness, we can say, here's the situation. And maybe on the

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outside, it looks like a horrible situation with that

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quietness, we say, okay, if I'm gonna, if I have this stillness,

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if I have this silence, I can strip away what my reactive mind

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is saying, and I can look at it like, Okay, I see that there's

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gold to be mined there, there's something to grow from. And we

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can just basically extract the things that are going to help us

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grow, help us learn, help us become more compassionate, and

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better for the people around us. So that inner journey, much to

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what you saw, articularly said, allows us the the thought paint,

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and I love that, by the way. So I paint to totally allow us to

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create a life that is vibrant and just worth living is that

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mean every day is going to be an absolute dream. No. But with a

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meditation practice, we don't get caught up into that, that

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that net of emotional reactivity where it's like, Oh, my God, I

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lost my job, this is the worst thing ever, I'm gonna be under a

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bridge and like, relax, relax, don't buy into that you can

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paint whatever picture you want. And with that, that stillness,

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you know, not to jump into the situations that are gonna just

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just keep that that cataclysmic spiral going. So I hope that

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answered your question.

Alan Carroll:

It's a question that's been asked for 1000s of

Alan Carroll:

years. So probably will be 4000 more. Because what you're

Alan Carroll:

talking about is thoughts are things muddied. Alright, just

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like, this coffee cup is the thing that exists within a

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space. So the thought is a metaphysical thing, because you

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can't quite touch it, right? Son of a gun, it's there and exist

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within that space. And to me, if you can distinguish the thing,

Alan Carroll:

the thought that now appears in the space, and then begin to

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make spaced, more important than the thing and the space behind

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you do that, Tom, do that by creating space, right? Why do

Alan Carroll:

you create space? Well, you create space by closing your

Alan Carroll:

eyes, taking that breath and slowing everything down.

Alan Carroll:

salutely Slow down. And you can't do that drive on a car.

Alan Carroll:

You can't do that skiing the slopes can't do that talking to

Alan Carroll:

you. Tom can't do that. Taking your work, can't do it, my eyes

Alan Carroll:

open. So first of all, close your eyes, that would eliminate

Alan Carroll:

a huge amount of visual crap that you are seeing that is just

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contaminating things. And you you so one of the magic words is

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is controlling the thoughts through the power of

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observation. So let's talk about this observer witness Part of

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our beingness, which is developed by using what I call

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The Fifth Element of space, or their fire, water and space, by

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practicing and creating space, how do you develop that, that

Alan Carroll:

have not even developed? But I know you're a movie, a movie

Alan Carroll:

guy. And so am I, he is just you want your head taken off, listen

Alan Carroll:

to him. He is just incredible. Right? And so he talks about

Alan Carroll:

the, the erasing the erasing of the thoughts. And most people

Alan Carroll:

get stuck on the content of the thought good, bad, right

Alan Carroll:

thought. We're not talking here about the content of the

Alan Carroll:

thought. We're talking about your ability to manage thoughts,

Alan Carroll:

things, neutral thoughts, all the thoughts are neutral.

Alan Carroll:

They're not good thoughts, bad thoughts, right thought that's

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what did your mother told you. We're talking about neutrality

Alan Carroll:

here, where everything just is. So let's, let's take take us

Alan Carroll:

down that that path of neutrality, observation,

Alan Carroll:

everything just is without judgment. We're

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getting back to the very base of our conversation is

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meditation. It kind of segues right into that, because, excuse

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me, when we are meditating. And when you're meditating your

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mind, depending on the day, I mean, I've been meditating for

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over 40 years, so And there's still days that I sit on my

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thank you, but I sit on my cushion. And I'm like, okay,

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cool. What's for lunch today? Okay, dude, back to the breath

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back to the breath. Like, wow, that shows funny last night,

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back to the breath back to the breath. So the mind, even for an

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experienced meditator, it's gonna be it's gonna be active or

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less active, but to your point, seeing thoughts, neutrally is

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what meditation is perfect for. And one of the things, one of

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the greatest lessons that I teach my students is in the, in

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the first couple of weeks of our, of our training is that

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many times that just like I said, you know, you sit down,

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you quiet your mind, you close your eyes, you take those nice,

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deep breaths, and then your mind wanders, and then you bring it

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back to your breath, or your mind or whatever, it's going to

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be for that focus. And many of my new students get so

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frustrated, because they're like, dude, is this what

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meditation is? Like, every two seconds, I have to recognize a

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thought and bring my attention back to my breath. Like, That's

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so frustrating. I'm like, Well, why don't we turn that on its

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head? Why don't you see it as a gift instead of a curse? Because

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before you started learning how to meditate? When did you

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realize that you were having thoughts in the day? And they

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kind of scratch your head for a minute, and they're like, I, I

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never noticed when I have thoughts in the day, they just

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come. Like, exactly, exactly. And to that point, you never

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knew where they're coming from what the purpose was, you're

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just reacting to them with a meditation instead of getting

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frustrated, but always having to bring back your focus. Every

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time that you notice your mind wandering, you should send off

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fireworks, you are noticing your mind you are noticing thoughts.

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And to that point, because of our training because of our

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practice. You're saying this is a thought much like you so

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wonderfully put, it's a thought. It's not negative. It's not

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positive. It's a thought. And because I have this stillness,

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because I have this silence. I can look at it. I'm like, Cool.

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I don't need to react. It's just like, like staring at a painting

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in a museum. You're like, yeah, God, that's beautiful. Yeah.

Alan Carroll:

Good analogy. Staring at painting in the

Alan Carroll:

museum.

Unknown:

Yes. Yeah. That painting that you painted. Yeah,

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that's a great point.

Alan Carroll:

Judging the painting that you painted. Oh,

Alan Carroll:

Rocky, bad. Good. I liked that. Put that crap in the painting. I

Alan Carroll:

guess. I want to know who around here, put that stuff on that

Alan Carroll:

painting. We got to find that person, baby. And we got to do

Alan Carroll:

stuff because that person has issues. That's a great analogy.

Alan Carroll:

I love that one.

Unknown:

No, that's awesome. I love how you brought that alive

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because that's exactly what our mind does, outside of a

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meditation because in meditation, we're like, cool,

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there's a painting. It's got a gold frame and there's a tree,

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there's burnin. We just look at it. But to the untrained persons

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like, just like you said, like, well, who painted that look at

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those brushstrokes are all over the place. Why would you choose

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that color and our mind is just like doing that same thing with

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a thought. I'm like, Whoa. Whereas with meditation

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practice, we just like cool. There's a thought the other day.

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It's funny because one of the as a quick aside the other day, one

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of the things that our meditation practice is good for

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is helping us identify thoughts and fears. I was working on

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something I was about to start something that I'd never done

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before. I don't know if it was a marketing thing or whatever. And

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I had this thought like, huh, God this is this is gonna be

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tough. Are you sure you should tackle that right now? This is

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probably not something you're that good at. And because of my

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awareness, I'm like, hey, oh, look Can you thanks for showing

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up? No, I got this. But I appreciate you're trying to

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trying to dissuade me. So we have that. And that's a somewhat

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whimsical take on how we can have interactions with our

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thoughts how we can week, because we have a meditation

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practice, we can see a thought is a thing and just say, Huh,

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where did that come from? Like, oh, that's fear. That's ego

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trying to get me to a safe spot. Well guess what I'm all set. So

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see you later. That interaction, that understanding of thoughts

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is just so powerful, because what I talked about many times

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on, in my, with my students, and on Zen commuters that we have a

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gap between stimulus and response. And when we don't have

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a practice, it's probably like, you could fit a sheet of paper

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in between that gap between stimulus and response. And we

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just become so reactive, but with anything that we increase

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that gap, so that when something happens, we can it's like, much

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like that painter like that I'm using a movie, we just step back

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and we look at it like, Hmm, what do we want to do here? How

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do I want to respond to I want to respond, maybe I just want to

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react, maybe I just want to go with what I'm feeling. But we

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have that gap to determine what we want to do that gap to create

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our lives. And it's just so powerful, as I'm sure you

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obviously know. You're speaking

Alan Carroll:

to the choir, I'm still using that analogy of the

Alan Carroll:

museum. And one of the ways that I would describe the benefit of

Alan Carroll:

meditation is that every time I meditate, I take one step

Alan Carroll:

further away from the painting. Mm hmm. And every time I close

Alan Carroll:

my eyes and wake up during the day, I take one step away from

Alan Carroll:

the pin. And pretty soon the painting, which is the thought

Alan Carroll:

that had such a gravitational effect on my behavior, because

Alan Carroll:

my mother told me this to be true. And pretty soon the

Alan Carroll:

painting is 300 yards down down the road. And so it doesn't

Alan Carroll:

affect me, I can enjoy the paint, I do a close up of the

Alan Carroll:

painting, I can frame it, I can do anything I want with the

Alan Carroll:

painting. But the gravitational effect that the thought has on

Alan Carroll:

my behavior is now I can choose between the egoic thoughts or

Alan Carroll:

the loving God thoughts, right? Boy, if I choose a loving God

Alan Carroll:

thoughts, then you and I are both sons of God. I'm having fun

Alan Carroll:

on the earth right now entertaining our brothers and

Alan Carroll:

sisters, on the spiritual benefits of meditation. And

Alan Carroll:

that's our journey. That's what we do. And so that is that,

Alan Carroll:

therefore you would always paint the words that you speak. And

Alan Carroll:

you'd always paint the thoughts that you think you'd have a

Alan Carroll:

choice. Well, how do you how do you get a choice, you got to get

Alan Carroll:

a choice between that space you talked about? There's the thing

Alan Carroll:

of the thought. And then there's the space. Most people have no

Alan Carroll:

space. Exactly. So take us down the we'll jump into a little bit

Alan Carroll:

of the Buddhist thing. And the Buddhist talks about disembodied

Alan Carroll:

states of consciousness and embodied states of

Alan Carroll:

consciousness, which to me has to do with disembodied means

Alan Carroll:

you're playing with the thoughts. And embody means

Alan Carroll:

you're playing with the body. So let's take us down to the

Alan Carroll:

another benefit of spending your life in the body rather than

Alan Carroll:

spending your life in the clouds.

Unknown:

Well, one of the things that meditation is beneficial

Unknown:

for with that with that question is that there are a lot of

Unknown:

physiological things that happen in our body. We can we'll segue

Unknown:

into Buddhism for a second in a bit, but just thinking about

Unknown:

many times people think about meditation as being something

Unknown:

totally like, Oh, those monks in the Himalayas they they're

Unknown:

meditators, but Oh, headed

Alan Carroll:

monks. Just

Unknown:

get sent like, hey, there's my brother. Exactly. I

Unknown:

never thought that my shaving my head would be a choice that will

Unknown:

serve me later on. Future, people might think, Oh, wow,

Unknown:

that guy's kind of wise. I'm like, wow, okay. He's got a bald

Unknown:

head, he must be wise. But getting back to your question is

Unknown:

that people see have the misperception that meditation is

Unknown:

something for, for Buddhists, for monks, for clerics, and way

Unknown:

out there not knowing that, yeah, there could be that

Unknown:

component. And we have that stillness. We could bring it

Unknown:

wherever we want. But the very nature of meditation is

Unknown:

physiological. You know, in the exercise we just did the

Unknown:

beginning of the of our talk, taking those nice deep breaths.

Unknown:

When we exactly when we breathe deeply through our diaphragm,

Unknown:

expanding our belly and contracting, there is a nerve

Unknown:

that is attached to the diaphragm. It's called the vagus

Unknown:

nerve. And basically when our body or our brain says, Huh,

Unknown:

that that stomach that Abner, that bell, whatever you want to

Unknown:

call it, is expanding and contracting. That signal goes up

Unknown:

to the brain to say, okay, you know what? We were all fired up

Unknown:

in that fight or flight response, meaning that our heart

Unknown:

rate was going our breathing was labored blood was leaving our

Unknown:

hands and our feet and our fingers has to go to major

Unknown:

muscles. So we can run or fight that tiger that back in the day

Unknown:

was there. So that's fight or flight. So if we have a fight or

Unknown:

flight, then we must have something to counteract that.

Unknown:

And that's exactly the relaxation response. And kind of

Unknown:

roundabout when we take those nice deep breaths through our

Unknown:

abdomen that that vagus nerve is triggered. So the brain says,

Unknown:

Okay, if he or she is breathing like this, there's no tiger,

Unknown:

there's no guy with a gun, or Girl with a Gun. It's just, they

Unknown:

must be in that shell space, so I don't have to be all ramped up

Unknown:

anymore. Let me fire up the relaxation response. So then the

Unknown:

heart starts slowing down, that are late, our breathing becomes

Unknown:

less labored. We get blood back in our fingers and toes. And the

Unknown:

reason this is so important is that back in the caveman days,

Unknown:

it was very clear, what was a danger, like, hey, there's a

Unknown:

tiger right at the mouth of the cave. Oh my god. So now, so then

Unknown:

that fight or flight ramped up. But as we evolved, we became

Unknown:

aware or more things we're putting our, in our lives, that

Unknown:

may be a danger or may not. So the point or the example I

Unknown:

always get is that, suppose you're at work, and your boss

Unknown:

zips off and email. Hey, I want to get together today and talk

Unknown:

about some stuff. Your brain could start saying, Oh, God, oh,

Unknown:

God, what do they want? Oh, I screw up on that project. Oh,

Unknown:

man. So that innocuous email then becomes a tiger at your

Unknown:

cave door. And your stress response just getting ramped up

Unknown:

and ramped up, right?

Alan Carroll:

Analogies through the tiger, the email becomes the

Alan Carroll:

tiger at your what door? Was it again?

Unknown:

What's that? The Tiger at the cave? The cave cave door

Unknown:

at the cave

Alan Carroll:

door? Yeah, that's great. That's exactly what

Alan Carroll:

happens. Yeah, absolutely.

Unknown:

So. And that's just one example. So if we have if we

Unknown:

don't have the ability to suss out what is and what isn't, then

Unknown:

literally everything becomes a stress response, or everything

Unknown:

becomes an impetus for a stress response. And then we're just

Unknown:

stressed all the time. And because that stress is happening

Unknown:

all the time, then we become we have the misperception that that

Unknown:

is normal, that I'm like, oh, no, I'm not stressed. But your

Unknown:

body's saying, The hell you aren't. Like, you may have

Unknown:

normalized this, but no, I'm reacting, like everything you

Unknown:

see, everything you're feeding me is a danger. So with that

Unknown:

stress response going all throughout our days, then

Unknown:

obviously that's going to wreak havoc with our bodies, because

Unknown:

our the fight or flight is always only supposed to be like,

Unknown:

run or fight the tiger. And then, okay, cool, ramped down.

Unknown:

But if it stays ramped up, we just rip through our body like a

Unknown:

hot knife through butter. So we have the ability, with a

Unknown:

meditation practice to kind of to find that gap that we're just

Unknown:

talking about, and just kind of see what is what is real or

Unknown:

create the perception of what we want to be real, I think, um,

Unknown:

maybe we'll save that. We'll save that for another talk. But

Unknown:

so. So obviously, meditation Buddhism been around over 2500

Unknown:

years. So it's amazing, and not amazing that a practice has

Unknown:

lasted that long, because there are so many benefits. One of the

Unknown:

other benefits in relation to your question is that when we

Unknown:

have a meditation practice, there's just such a calm that

Unknown:

comes from connection. We are constantly much like I talked

Unknown:

about earlier, inundated with suicidal thoughts, and one of

Unknown:

the hugest thoughts is that we are all separate. That you are

Unknown:

Alan, I am Tom, you were there. I'm here we are two separate

Unknown:

people just go on about this earth. And the Buddhist belief

Unknown:

that when we have that meditative practice, when we

Unknown:

have those moments of stillness, we connect to that oneness that

Unknown:

we that bubble that I talked about before, when somebody

Unknown:

says, Oh, there are a billion people on the planet. Now

Unknown:

there's one entity on this planet. When we have that

Unknown:

stillness, then we shut out all those things that say, You're

Unknown:

separate, you're alone. You are, it's just you. And then we feel

Unknown:

that all life, and it's just so palpable, and it happens many

Unknown:

times in my meditation, and one of the things I talk about

Unknown:

whether it be literal, like depression, or loneliness, or

Unknown:

anxiety, we, when we get in those spaces, we're like, it's

Unknown:

just me, and it's really tough. I'm just one person and nobody

Unknown:

knows what I'm going through. And the whole world is out there

Unknown:

and I'm just suffering. But when we have a meditation practice,

Unknown:

we realize that there's a connection and that connection.

Unknown:

It's not tangible, but it's just so wonderful to know that with a

Unknown:

meditation practice, like regardless of what you're going

Unknown:

through, whether you quotation your thoughts are not, you're

Unknown:

not alone. When you have a meditation practice, you just

Unknown:

feel such connection. And even in the most surreal meditations

Unknown:

that I've had, when I've thought about, I'm like, I am one guy in

Unknown:

a park on a bench meditating, and there's an entire universe,

Unknown:

I am so small. And yet in my meditation, that's the exact

Unknown:

opposite that I feel. I'm like, I am one grain of sand on a

Unknown:

beach. But I am absolutely one of the most not just one of but

Unknown:

just, I am pivotal in this beach, if I didn't exist, this

Unknown:

beach wouldn't exist. And to that point is when we have that

Unknown:

meditation practice, like, there's just such a calm, and

Unknown:

there's just such a joy that comes from knowing like, Man, I

Unknown:

am part of something really amazing. And because we have

Unknown:

that practice, we are shielding ourselves from all the things

Unknown:

say, what are you crazy? You're one guy. And like, so? From

Unknown:

Buddhist standpoint, obviously, our meditation practice fosters

Unknown:

compassion, fosters connection, fosters universal love. And to

Unknown:

be honest, that's theirs doesn't get better than that for me,

Unknown:

which is why I do what I do. Do you find the same to be the case

Unknown:

for you?

Alan Carroll:

Buddhism is, of the different religions I've

Alan Carroll:

tasted, it tastes the sweetest. Because it talks about the

Alan Carroll:

illusion of separation. So what does that mean? Well, that means

Alan Carroll:

they asked the question, well, what do you mean, we're

Alan Carroll:

connected? Somehow? If I don't, that's not my experience. Right?

Alan Carroll:

And then that gets you into the ego being conversation. So the

Alan Carroll:

ego is the one that doesn't experience the connection. And

Alan Carroll:

the being is the one that experiences connecting. Well,

Alan Carroll:

how do you build the bridge? Between this egoic judgment

Alan Carroll:

identity and this spiritual being identity? And, and one of

Alan Carroll:

the greatest teachers that I'd like to talk about now is Mr.

Alan Carroll:

Moochie. Because I saw on your Instagram, you had a picture of

Alan Carroll:

him. And I thought that but you had a picture of Musa that's,

Alan Carroll:

that's a divine person I'm talking to because you don't see

Alan Carroll:

a lot of people with with pictures of moose Muti on on on

Alan Carroll:

your, on their Instagram, until you hear him speak. And then you

Alan Carroll:

hear him speak. You want to picture? Yeah. So how long have

Alan Carroll:

you listened to Moochie?

Unknown:

relatively recently, in fact, to be honest with you, I

Unknown:

came across it and just started delving into, into the, the

Unknown:

thoughts and beliefs of, of, of, of Moochie and what it really

Unknown:

meant. And it's just, I mean, the thing that's so awesome

Unknown:

about meditation as well, just as a segue real quickly is that

Alan Carroll:

thank you time, take your time. Take a breath,

Alan Carroll:

you know. There's no rush here. No. Like the horses calm down.

Alan Carroll:

Take the breath, settle down.

Unknown:

Just become a student.

Alan Carroll:

Take the big breath. There you go. There you

Alan Carroll:

go. Okay, get those horses all lined up. You're talking about a

Alan Carroll:

Divine Being he just he deserves a few seconds of stillness.

Alan Carroll:

Right.

Unknown:

Right. Exactly. But is it as a as a quick aside, that

Unknown:

when we have that awareness, when we have that stillness, it

Unknown:

trend it makes its way into our, our, our daily life? And the

Unknown:

things that seem just like just like, fleeting by like, oh, oh,

Unknown:

so when there are things like Moochie, like quotes, like

Unknown:

anything. It's like we become aware of them because we're

Unknown:

slower. Like, instead of world going like this, it's like, wow,

Unknown:

hey, that's neat. Cool. So yeah, to be honest, I recently just

Unknown:

found out about Moochie. Well, what's your experience been?

Alan Carroll:

He says the same thing again, and again and again

Alan Carroll:

and again, and he doesn't change the music. Every time you listen

Alan Carroll:

to the YouTube, it's the same song. Right? It's all new. And

Alan Carroll:

so it's it's a song of stillness. It's the song of the

Alan Carroll:

idea that the thoughts are the clouds in the sky. And you are

Alan Carroll:

not the clouds. The clouds are impermanent, they're passing by

Alan Carroll:

they're all the things and then you begin to look for blue sky

Alan Carroll:

and create more blue sky and more blue sky and the the the

Alan Carroll:

revelation that came to me when I listened to what he had to

Alan Carroll:

say. He talked about taking In all the thoughts of the future,

Alan Carroll:

all the thoughts you jump, and just just for a second, just put

Alan Carroll:

them over to the side. And now take all the thoughts of the

Alan Carroll:

past memories, experiences, judgments, it's take all those

Alan Carroll:

thoughts and put them there just for a second, just for a second,

Alan Carroll:

just one second. And let's just take a look at what's left. And

Alan Carroll:

then you discover that every thought that you think or see or

Alan Carroll:

feel is either falls into one or two categories. And when you can

Alan Carroll:

just for this pretending Of course, we're just pretending

Alan Carroll:

the the empty space, and he spends 20 minutes to asking

Alan Carroll:

questions about the empty space. What is the shape of the empty

Alan Carroll:

space? Well, it doesn't really have a shape. What's the opinion

Alan Carroll:

of the empty space? Well, it doesn't have an opinion, it's

Alan Carroll:

just, it's just is when you realize that your your vision

Alan Carroll:

has been contaminated. And by the thoughts that you're

Alan Carroll:

thinking that you're not even consciously aware of, until

Alan Carroll:

until you get that space. And then you realize, oh, it's just

Alan Carroll:

a painting that I'm painting. Yeah, that is that revelation of

Alan Carroll:

the distinction that, wait a minute, I can create a blank

Alan Carroll:

space. In my reality, if I can just manage my thoughts, which

Alan Carroll:

is where we started our conversation, when I asked you

Alan Carroll:

the benefit of meditation, and you said, the ability to control

Alan Carroll:

our thoughts, and our the ability in my world to become a

Alan Carroll:

a master painter. So you only paint you only paint pictures of

Alan Carroll:

love and divinity, compassion and love. And so I want to thank

Alan Carroll:

you for for inspiring our audience today and, and

Alan Carroll:

inspiring me so that I can feel the energy within me. You know,

Alan Carroll:

it's like riding the rapids a little faster than the word like

Alan Carroll:

level five, downhill. Rapids rather than easy. I really

Alan Carroll:

enjoyed the bouncing the back and forth of our cover our

Alan Carroll:

conversation, because he's, well, you say the same words you

Alan Carroll:

use, you have experienced. You've tasted the same stuff.

Alan Carroll:

And you articulated with words that yeah, I understand those

Alan Carroll:

words. Those take some time to understand, though, but I

Alan Carroll:

understand some of those words you're talking about.

Unknown:

Right? Right. But it's been an absolute joy to be

Unknown:

sharing this time with you as well, because it's, I love

Unknown:

talking, obviously, with kindred souls. And it was so nice to

Unknown:

have you on that computer. And I'm so glad that we get to

Unknown:

continue our conversation as well. Excuse me, and to that

Unknown:

point, you give me so many things to think about as well.

Unknown:

And it's funny, because it's the same thing that we're tasting.

Unknown:

But we're tasting it in two different ways. And that's

Unknown:

what's so wonderful about meditation is that we get to

Unknown:

experience things, how we choose to experience them, but with the

Unknown:

paint the metaphor that we're using so often, but so

Unknown:

accurately and aptly that life isn't challenging. I mean, yeah,

Unknown:

there are gonna be times where you're like, Man, this sucks.

Unknown:

But you know, what, throw a label of suck on it. And that's

Unknown:

how it's gonna be forever. extract that know that you can

Unknown:

create anything. And it's just, I have such a gift in my mom. My

Unknown:

mom taught me how to meditate when I was 18. So, and she was a

Unknown:

pioneer way before, like, the things that you and I are

Unknown:

talking about. Now the things that we hear in our circles she

Unknown:

was talking about in 1982 when I was in high school, and I

Unknown:

remember just so many times, I'm like, she taught me how to

Unknown:

meditate. But I mean, she'd say so many things. I'm just like,

Unknown:

and she wasn't a drinker. I'm like, Have you been drinking?

Unknown:

I'm like, What the heck are you talking about? And now the very

Unknown:

things that she used to that had me scratching my head when I was

Unknown:

a kid, I'm like, Ah, thanks for being patient, Mom, I get it.

Unknown:

Now. She was planting all these seeds. And the the major seed

Unknown:

that she planted was that very thing that you create your own

Unknown:

reality. She's like, you want to change your world, change your

Unknown:

thoughts change, one thought can create an entire different

Unknown:

reality. And like I said, when I was younger, I'm like, Wolf, you

Unknown:

were out there, sister, I don't know for sure. But is the

Unknown:

greatest gift that she has ever given me. And she's given me

Unknown:

plenty different things about you know, teaching meditation

Unknown:

and just different ways of being in the world. But just the

Unknown:

understanding that you don't have to buy into anybody else's

Unknown:

reality about what life is you can create your reality for what

Unknown:

life is. And with a meditation practice, there might be people

Unknown:

saying, either you're crazy, you're like, Dude, you can't do

Unknown:

that. Or what about this? What about that? Do you live in a

Unknown:

under a rock, there's war, there's famine, there's disease.

Unknown:

I'm like, yeah, it's out there. But it's not in here. I can be

Unknown:

the best person that I can be. And I can change those things

Unknown:

either. Literally by deciding to change those things or by

Unknown:

resonating an energy that is love and kindness and

Unknown:

compassionate every time I sit down every time you sit down.

Unknown:

That is it. exactly what we do, we change the energy of the

Unknown:

world. And that's why for me, meditation is so important

Unknown:

because I mean, I'm not a, everybody's got their own path.

Unknown:

But the more people that learn how to create their world that

Unknown:

come from a place of love and compassion and stillness, like,

Unknown:

that's how the world changes. Yeah, there are things we can do

Unknown:

on a, quote, physical level, but it's just as equally powerful,

Unknown:

if not more so, to be on your cushion. Imagine if the entire

Unknown:

world meditated for 15 minutes, the world would change, it would

Unknown:

change. It would become imperceivable, to what the world

Unknown:

is now. And not that the world now is anything other than

Unknown:

perfect as well. But there's just a union, there's a

Unknown:

stillness, and there's just such an energy that is that emanates

Unknown:

from each of us, when we control our thoughts, control our energy

Unknown:

control. Our minds just come from a place of love and

Unknown:

compassion. Oh, isn't

Alan Carroll:

that sweet? Wow, what a nice way to complete our

Alan Carroll:

first I hope of more podcast.

Unknown:

I would love that as well. You are definitely always

Unknown:

welcome on Sam computer, for sure. And

Alan Carroll:

so I want to thank you, Tom, Tom Walters for being

Alan Carroll:

a spark of light, and making the paint of illumination even

Alan Carroll:

better, and allow the divine light of what we're talking

Alan Carroll:

about to shine brightly and in people's lives by taking a time

Alan Carroll:

out each day to create that space of stillness. So thank you

Alan Carroll:

for being a champion of still thank

Unknown:

you right back for the exact same thing. I love it.

Unknown:

Like I said, I love it when I get to talk to like kindred

Unknown:

souls and kindred spirits that are doing the exact same thing.

Unknown:

So I appreciate this opportunity. I'm glad for all

Unknown:

the work that you're doing as well. So thank you. All

Alan Carroll:

right. Well, thank you very much, Tom. Until and

Alan Carroll:

until next time.

Unknown:

Take care, my friend

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About the Podcast

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About your host

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Alan Carroll

Alan Carroll is an Educational Psychologist who specializes in Transpersonal Psychology. He founded Alan Carroll & Associates 30 years ago and before that, he was a Senior Sales Training Consultant for 10 years at Digital Equipment Corporation. He has dedicated his life in search of mindfulness tools that can be used by everyone (young and old) to transform their ability to speak at a professional level, as well as, to reduce the psychological suffering caused by the misidentification with our ego and reconnect to the vast transcendent dimension of consciousness that lies just on the other side of the thoughts we think and in between the words we speak.